We are loved! | Black Girl with Long Hair Black Girl with Long Hair | Natural Hair Styles and Natural Hair Care

07 April 2010 ~ 62 Comments

We are loved!

Recently we had a lively, 120-comment-long discussion about whether natural black women fit best with non-black men. I had some thoughts on that, but decided against doing a follow up post. But Jill Scott’s recent commentary on interracial relationship really got under my skin.

In an OpEd in Essence Magazine Jill says;

My new friend is handsome, African-American, intelligent and seemingly wealthy. He is an athlete, loves his momma, and is happily married to a White woman. I admit when I saw his wedding ring, I privately hoped. But something in me just knew he didn’t marry a sister. Although my guess hit the mark, when my friend told me his wife was indeed Caucasian, I felt my spirit…wince. I didn’t immediately understand it. My face read happy for you. My body showed no reaction to my inner pinch, but the sting was there, quiet like a mosquito under a summer dress.

Was I jealous? Did the reality of his relationship somehow diminish his soul’s credibility? The answer is not simple. One could easily dispel the wince as racist or separatist, but that’s not how I was brought up. I was reared in a Jehovah’s Witness household. I was taught that every man should be judged by his deeds and not his color, and I firmly stand where my grandmother left me. African people worldwide are known to be welcoming and open-minded. We share our culture sometimes to our own peril and most of us love the very notion of love. My position is that for women of color, this very common “wince” has solely to do with the African story in America.

When our people were enslaved, “Massa” placed his Caucasian woman on a pedestal. She was spoiled, revered and angelic, while the Black slave woman was overworked, beaten, raped and farmed out like cattle to be mated. She was nothing and neither was our Black man. As slavery died for the greater good of America, and the movement for equality sputtered to life, the White woman was on the cover of every American magazine. She was the dazzling jewel on every movie screen, the glory of every commercial and television show. She was unequivocally the standard of beauty for this country, firmly unattainable to anyone not of her race. We daughters of the dust were seen as ugly, nappy mammies, good for day work and unwanted children, while our men were thought to be thieving, sex-hungry animals with limited brain capacity.

We reflect on this awful past and recall that if a Black man even looked at a White woman, he would have been lynched, beaten, jailed or shot to death. In the midst of this, Black women and Black men struggled together, mourned together, starved together, braved the hoses and vicious police dogs and died untimely on southern back roads together. These harsh truths lead to what we really feel when we see a seemingly together brother with a Caucasian woman and their children. That feeling is betrayed. While we exert efforts to raise our sons and daughters to appreciate themselves and respect others, most of us end up doing this important work alone, with no fathers or like representatives, limited financial support (often court-enforced) and, on top of everything else, an empty bed. It’s frustrating and it hurts!

Our minds do understand that people of all races find genuine love in many places. We dig that the world is full of amazing options. But underneath, there is a bite, no matter the ointment, that has yet to stop burning. Some may find these thoughts to be hurtful. That is not my intent. I’m just sayin’.

Now I love Jill Scott as much as anyone, but I found her statements sorely misguided. Although I can understand theoretically where she is coming from, on a visceral level I just can’t relate. My focus is just… elsewhere.

There’s something I’ve noticed about the natural community: A LOT of us are married, engaged and/or dating! I have read/heard so many adorable love stories on blogs, YouTube channels and Fotki pages — all featuring natural black women as the central character. Some of my favorites are Margaret, Sunshine, Turnergirl, Roshini and MrsBNL.

There has been debate over whether the percentage of married naturals is higher than the percentage of married black women overall. I don’t know the answer to that (though I’d place my bets on married naturals) but I have found that generally speaking natural women are so preoccupied with their own happiness and progress that they don’t care about what some triflin/uninterested black man — or any color man for that matter — is doing.

And yes, that is a gross generalization. But I feel that the aura of self-acceptance and love that pervades the natural community tends to float into other areas of life. There’s a vulnerability among naturals that I find refreshing — an acknowledgment of the key role that love plays in life. How many times have I heard natural women say things like ‘my boyfriend was there for my big chop’ or ‘I couldn’t have gone natural without my husband’s support’.

And I guess that’s why Jill Scott’s statements rung hollow to me. Being in a community where uninterested black men have no place, where women find love with men of all races, where I see multiple examples of supportive, patient, natural-hair loving black men… it just makes it hard for me to hang onto bitterness regarding someone else’s romantic decision.

And this is not to trivialize the issue of singleness among black women. All I’m saying is that we can spend our energy trying to plead with and convince those who don’t love us. Or we can spend our energy and time investing in those who do. And, from where I’m standing, there are definitely more than we think.

Just my two pence.

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62 Responses to “We are loved!”

  1. Ashleigh L. A. 7 April 2010 at 1:18 am Permalink

    I can see where Jill is coming from but I still I have mixed feeling. I don’t know…I’m just over the whole Single Black Women thing and the issues with inter-racial relationships.

    Anyway, my boyfriend has supported me going natural ever since I told him I was doing it. I could cut my hair if I wanted to and although he wouldn’t particularly like it, he’d still support me. Also, he’s trying to lock his hair so in a way we’re supporting each other. And if he decided to go back to the low cut, I wouldn’t be upset (even though I love playing with his lil ‘fro). I am not my hair and he isn’t his.

  2. Nedra 7 April 2010 at 1:39 am Permalink

    “All I’m saying is that we can spend our energy trying to plead with and convince those who don’t love us. Or we can spend our energy and time investing in those who do.”

    Word.

    And it doesn’t mean abandoning Black Men… it means weeding out the WACK ones.

  3. MissPomegranate 7 April 2010 at 2:26 am Permalink

    I’ve felt that ‘wince’ Jill was talking about…..almost every Black woman I know has voiced a similar experience. I think those feelings show the nagging insecurity we still carry with us, that is: if a brotha is dating/married to a white woman, we assume/feel that he is implicitly saying “I don’t want YOU”. Thats not always true, but the possibility that those are the reasons is something that is terrifying.

  4. Afrika 7 April 2010 at 3:44 am Permalink

    I think Jill was trying to touch on the issue of self-hate but she could have worded it differently. Self-hate is a legitimate issue among black men. I can remember being around 16 years old and telling my friends that I would never get married to a black woman. I wanted the white women I saw on the media. The ones with the long blonde hair and pale skin. It was only in college that I broke free from this mentality. I think Jill was trying to express this issue but she didn’t choose her words her correctly. Love knows no color, that’s definitely true. However, we can’t deny the issue of self-hate in black communities. Just my take on it.

  5. Steph 7 April 2010 at 8:46 am Permalink

    I thought her commentary was a bit shallow, until I actually went to the Essence site and read the whole piece, where she goes on to explain why she was wincing, and how she knows that she was raised better, etc.

    In this case, isolating just that one paragraph was unfair to Ms Scott and made her out to look worse than what it actually was, IMHO.

  6. Aisha 7 April 2010 at 9:15 am Permalink

    Right On!! to this whole post.

  7. Angelina 7 April 2010 at 9:33 am Permalink

    Has Jill considered that maybe instead of thinking her friend particularly wanted to marry a white woman (I got that vibe from her comment), maybe he just took color out of his equation for the type of qualities he was looking for in a woman and it opened up more possibilities for him?
    I know there is a general complaint in the community of there not being enough good black men for all of us because they may be taken by someone who’s not black, etc., so some of us remain single, or get with someone who is not good enough. But like “Ashleigh L. A.” (first comment) says, “I’m just over the whole Single Black Women thing and the issues with inter-racial relationships.”
    Start taking color out the equation, focus on the qualities of a person you want, and see how many more options you have.

  8. Sandy 7 April 2010 at 9:48 am Permalink

    Personally, I wouldn’t exactly dismiss Jill as “bitter.”
    There is bitter and then there is fleeting regret — like a passing sigh or an SMH (shaking my head).
    I think Jill is on the fleeting regret side of things.
    Like Jill, I shake my head at a lot of things that disappoint me in life, but I’m never bitter; in other words, I don’t carry the disappointment with me throughout the day. I acknowledge the annoying mosquito & the nuisance of “dirt,” and then — like Jay-Z — I brush that mess off of my shoulders.

    There are mosquitoes and then there are albatrosses.
    Jill’s only talking about a mosquito, folks.
    I predominantly date white men, and even I have felt the sting Jill describes. And NOT because I’m bitter and wish that I was loved by this successful-black-man-dating-a-white-woman-sitting-in-front-of-me-on-the-train, but because I hate being tased by a damned CLICHE on my daily commute!
    (SMH)

  9. Sandy 7 April 2010 at 9:50 am Permalink

    DON’T tase me, bro!

  10. dajewel 7 April 2010 at 10:02 am Permalink

    maybe it is me, but i don’t see how Jill’s comment have anything to do with your hypothesis.

  11. b. 7 April 2010 at 10:23 am Permalink

    I commented about J. Scott’s article on another blog (Honeysmoke) and the gist of it was I understand where Jill is coming from. I really don’t think she was bashing interracial relationships as much as she was giving voice to the conflicted feelings she has when she sees them. She stated at the beginning of her article that she recognizes the value of a person beyond their color (see paragraph 2 of her article). Everyone has moments in life when they have conflicted feelings about certain things. Jill is openly stating a moment of conflict in her own life.

    Do I have those feelings personally? Every once in a while…but not every time. I’ve matured beyond entertaining these thoughts every time I see IR couples. I sometimes catch myself wondering what brought the two people together more than I wonder *why* they are together. When I see couples of different heritages, I realize their back story is probably very interesting, and I wonder within myself what their story is. Frankly, I’m glad whenever I see a couple *period* that looks happy, because I am in a marriage that I can honestly say has been the BEST time of my life. I like what Nedra said above: “It doesn’t mean abandoning Black Men…it means weeding out the WACK ones.”

  12. Cecily 7 April 2010 at 11:13 am Permalink

    I don’t think Jill was trying to necessarily comment on the “single-Black-women-issue”, or whatever you want to call it. I think almost all Black women have felt that “wince”. It’s an insecurity that she explains much more in depth in her post. I think everyone wants to be accepted & loved by their own. It’s a feeling of forgetting who loved you and cared for you. She has been commenting on this issue for years, specifically in her songs “Do You Remember” from Who Is JIll Scott? and “How’s It Make You Feel” from The Real Thing.

    This is not only an issue that effects only Black women either! Black men sometimes feel the same way, as do people of other races. I have issues dating White men because I feel as if I am disrespecting my father. I feel dating a White man in some way shows that I do not honor him. I realize that this is not the way the so-called “post-modern”, “post-racial” world is supposed to be, but this is my reality, my true feelings. The other day I heard some Indian friends of mine teasing their friend for dating a White girl. Some of them were shaking their heads just like we do sometimes. My point is this isn’t only an issue of Black women being bitter or non-progressive; it’s an issue of history and love and respect.

    So many times these issues are swept under the rug, not discussed, dismissed as archaic or inane. I think Jill’s commentary is much needed.

  13. Black Girl With Long Hair 7 April 2010 at 11:41 am Permalink

    @Steph… I definitely wasn’t trying to misinterpret Jill and I did read the entire article before writing this. I’ve updated this post with Jill’s whole piece so that people can take it in its entirety.

    @dajewel… not sure if I had a hypothesis per say. What I’m trying to say is that we need to be more focused as black women on those who do love us. I don’t see a lot of movements within the black community that focus on those of us who are in strong, healthy relationships, those of us who are getting married and having children. (There are a few, like National Black Marriage day… which is a little corny to me, but I digress.) That’s why I find browsing natural blogs/YouTubes, etc to be so refreshing. Because I see a lot of that.

  14. Drea 7 April 2010 at 11:55 am Permalink

    I agree with this post wholeheartedly. From where im standing, if a good black man is what blk women want, there are plenty “supportive, patient, natural-hair loving black men” – that is if you have ur priorities in order and caring about another man’s preference should NOT top the list!! I see PLENTY on Youtube, in the blogosphere AND in my own social networks. I understand how easy it is for black women to be affected, even traumatized by how society’s perceptions of beauty and desirability SEEM to have given them the short end of the stick. However, I believe the “bitterness” stems from insecurity and as this post mentions, that is dictated by where you are standing psychologically. Sometimes people – and in this case, black women, need to change their mental perspective to encourage more positivity in their lives. This would explain why so many naturals have found romantic bliss – being natural encourages one to change their perspectives and ideas of beauty and in turn, that outlook changes the outlook of others. Black self-love is contagious =)

  15. julia 7 April 2010 at 12:07 pm Permalink

    I appreciate Jill being honest about her initial reaction and how her reaction even surprised her. I do agree with Angelina though that it’s often not about finding a white woman or an asian woman or anything that specific, but it’s more about taking color out of the equation and looking for a good WOMAN. Period.

    Race hasn’t been a factor in my dating life and I am married to a wonderful black man I met in college. They say like-attracts-like and each of use knows that we are so much more than our color (and our hair for that matter) – we need to acknowledge that same diversity in others.

  16. Nikki 7 April 2010 at 12:38 pm Permalink

    I read this article a couple of weeks ago, and I immediately understood what Jill was saying because the reasons behind those feelings are quite valid, we know that a lot of black men date white women exclusively because they feel black women are too whatever…

    But while I do understand her feelings I think that mentality for me is left in the 90s with movies like Waiting to Exhale. I don’t know if it’s so much because I’m natural or maybe that I’m from a younger generation but I just don’t want to own that pain anymore.

    I don’t want any man to be able to make me feel less than. A black man can think black women are too bossy or white women are more beautiful and that’s fine with me, John Mayer can have a racist penis and that’s fine with me too. I have enough love for myself now to be able to know that I don’t need their approval, so I shake my head at fools like that and keep it moving, rather than taking it personally or internalizing it. Plus most men are not that picky even if they pretend to be, if they are being natural instead of cocky they like all types of women – because all women have something that makes them fly.

    I just think its important for black women to love ourselves and to not let anyone make us feel inferior anymore, I respect the history of our ancestors but I think we just have to let that pain go so that we can heal, take our power back, and shine as brightly as we were meant to.

  17. channyboo23 7 April 2010 at 12:40 pm Permalink

    I totally agree with what you’re saying girl. I wish more black women would understand that once we learn to love ourselves as God made us, we open the door to a greater variety of relationships that might not always include black men. We get so hung up on being “hurt” by our brothas dating outside their race, when the real issue is who’s gonna love you for you once you decide to love yourself. I mean really if the man/woman loves you completely then color doesnt make a difference.

  18. Jackie 7 April 2010 at 12:42 pm Permalink

    I think that Jill Scott is on point. I myself am an open minded individual who is happy to see thriving, successful relationships. However, every now and then, I too fell the pinch when I see an interracial relationship. We need to ask why do we feel this way. Why does a seemingly large amount of Black men appear to prefer white women? Sometimes it’s not about a Black man preferring a white woman, love just happens. But sometimes, IT IS about Black men preferring white women over black women. I encourage everyone to read “Brainwashed – Challenging the Myth of Black Inferiority” by Tom Burrell. We were brainwashed a long time ago to feel less than and it is still affecting us today. Think about it – slave masters HAD to find a way to control us and they accurately figured out that if they controlled our mind, anything was possible. Jill Scott is touching on this important issue in her article.

    BGLH, as a fellow Chicagoan (who sees a lot of misguided or wack men), I can completely understand why you would want to just dismiss those who aren’t interested and focus on those who are, but we have to also understand why they aren’t interested in us. We have to be able to explain things and clarify things for our children so that they don’t grow up doing that which we despise.

  19. Miz B 7 April 2010 at 12:59 pm Permalink

    I agree with Cecily, I have done the “wince” myself! Jill Scott was just expressing her feelings towards this issue; don’t knock her for doing so. I feel if enough black women speak on the issue one day we will get feedback from our black men; which is much needed. This is NOT a jealousy thing as Jill stated, it has to do with history. Our community is broken enough. It does hurt when I see interracial couples and by the way I’m a natural single sistah. The sad part is everyone is going along with it like its okay. When I see a brother with a non black woman that wince will remain-period. I’m just sayin’.

  20. Black Girl With Long Hair 7 April 2010 at 1:13 pm Permalink

    @Nikki… I think you hit the nail on the head. I do think that Jill’s statements are a little dated. I mean, how many times have we heard this? I moved to the States 7 years ago, and I’ve heard this explicitly stated AT LEAST a dozen times, and subtly HUNDREDS of times. I guess I’m just ready to move on with the rhetoric. Is it still an issue? Yes. But can we *at least* acknowledge the black women who do find love when we talk about all the black men who are seemingly “deserting” us.

    @Jackie, LOL. Chicago is a HOT FLAMING MESS when it comes to black men who just don’t want black women. I hate walking around Wicker Park/Bucktown/Lincoln Park because those areas are the WORST. It’s funny because I’m engaged, my fiance is black and there will be non black women in those neighborhoods STILL HITTING ON HIM and TOTALLY disrespecting the fact that we’re together. *Sigh. But I digress.

    I think, though, that a lot of the black men who are open about the fact that they don’t want black women LACK CHARACTER generally speaking. To put it plainly, they’re racist. So it’s hard for me to see it as a “loss” when they’re with someone else. Because they were trifling to begin with! I think we forget that “successful” black men can be trifling too! (Tiger Woods is the POSTER CHILD for this right now.) It’s a mistake to marry solely for color, and I’m sure some of these BM/WW relationships that we see and feel the “wince” about have their own unique set of issues.

    I have a close family member who married a white woman (out of wanderlust) and they’re having a ton of issues! He is coming to the difficult realization that it just isn’t worth it to marry out of (to put it plainly) pure racism.

    I think we sometimes forget that the grass isn’t necessarily greener on the other side. And I hate that we pretend that it is.

    Another thing that I just want to throw out there that isn’t often addressed is the fact that a lot of bi-racial children (who come out of mixed marriages) go on to marry black people. I dated at least 3 dudes in college who had white moms and black dads. My fiance right now is a quarter white. His mom had a white mom & black dad and she (as well as 3 out of 4 of her siblings) went on to marry black people.

  21. BlaqInfinite 7 April 2010 at 1:30 pm Permalink

    I can definitely understand where she’s coming from, but I don’t know. I only have a problem of interracial relationships that are formed out of fetishes/self-hatred, and that goes for men and women. Yes, sometimes when I see an IR relationship I get suspicious, but typically I just assume/hope they are happy together and that’s that.

    I myself am open to dating all races and have dated outside of my race, I don’t care: since I’ve gone natural I’ve become more comfortable in my own skin and opened myself up to new things: I used to feel like I had an obligation to dating my own race and now I’ve met so many people of different ethnicities who understand me and appreciate me for who i am: isn’t that all that matters?? so I would be a hypocrite if I critisized others or felt a “sting” upon seeing other couples. Besides, if they are married I really just assume they love each other, so what’s bad about that?

  22. DM 7 April 2010 at 1:53 pm Permalink

    I don’t know why but I don’t feel this ‘wince’ when I hear a black man is with a white woman. Maybe its because I’m Jamaican but I lived there only the first 10 years of my life and then I moved to the states. I think one feels the ‘wince’ when someone in the only pool your are looking to, chooses outside your pool. For example, lets imagine a room where there are clusters of people rounded up into groups and each are on a quest to find a partner. You are in group A and somehow have convinced yourself (or been told) that the only pool from which you can, will or want to find your partner is group B (although there are groups C-Z in the room). You also understand that for whatever reason (maybe because group B shares some history with you) group B should be most inclined to choose a partner from your group, group A. Then you look and suddenly see members of group A moving away from the group to select their partners from group C-Z. You see that group dwindling as the members find their partners but your group A is still fairly large though some have managed to find their partners in group B and a few have also gone off to find partners in groups C-Z. I would feel the pinch, the ‘wince’, the sting if not panic all together. I mean does this mean I will not have much to select from? And it would hurt even more if the members of group A I see straggling off to find their partners in groups C-Z were what I thought of as compatible matches for me. I would have several (perhaps more choices): 1. Resolve to go it alone. Or 2. Crumple up and disgard my belief that my partner can or will only come from group A and start looking at the other groups. If I definitely don’t want anyone in the other groups then I will just have to take the risk I may never find what I want, or settle my expectations of what I want so someone still in group A who I may not have been willing to consider before, becomes a viable option for me. Basically, I will have to think outside the box. This is what I would do…..but then again, I have never been an ‘inside the box’ thinker in general. I love black men, especially ones from the Caribbean who share my love for ackee and saltfish and can play dominos and do the latest jamaican dance and understand when I speak patois. I dreamed of marrying a man like that. But then I met someone who loves me to no end. I did my big chop and he was telling me how beautiful my kinky hair was, showing me the curl here and there and guess what, he’s not in group A. Damn he even helps me mix my homemade concoctions for my hair. And never fails to bring me an avocado when we run out without my asking just because he knows I use it in my hair. I’m not married yet so who knows who I’ll end up with but for now, I’m happy. I think we have to abandon whatever has made us think we can only find love – we should, or will only find love in group A and look around us…all 360 degrees. Peace out.

  23. DM 7 April 2010 at 1:57 pm Permalink

    I don’t know why but I don’t feel this ‘wince’ when I hear a black man is with a white woman. Maybe its because I’m Jamaican but I lived there only the first 10 years of my life and then I moved to the states. I think one feels the ‘wince’ when someone in the only pool your are looking to, chooses outside your pool. For example, lets imagine a room where there are clusters of people rounded up into groups and each are on a quest to find a partner. You are in group A and somehow have convinced yourself (or been told) that the only pool from which you can, will or want to find your partner is group B (although there are groups C-Z in the room). You also understand that for whatever reason (maybe because group B shares some history with you) group B should be most inclined to choose a partner from your group, group A. Then you look and suddenly see members of group B moving away from the group to select their partners from group C-Z. You see that group dwindling as the members find their partners but your group A is still fairly large though some have managed to find their partners in group B and a few have also gone off to find partners in groups C-Z. I would feel the pinch, the ‘wince’, the sting if not panic all together. I mean does this mean I will not have much to select from? And it would hurt even more if the members of group B I see straggling off to find their partners in groups C-Z were what I thought of as compatible matches for me. I would have several (perhaps more choices): 1. Resolve to go it alone. Or 2. Crumple up and disgard my belief that my partner can or will only come from group A and start looking at the other groups. If I definitely don’t want anyone in the other groups then I will just have to take the risk I may never find what I want, or settle my expectations of what I want so someone still in group B who I may not have been willing to consider before, becomes a viable option for me. Basically, I will have to think outside the box. This is what I would do…..but then again, I have never been an ‘inside the box’ thinker in general. I love black men, especially ones from the Caribbean who share my love for ackee and saltfish and can play dominos and do the latest jamaican dance and understand when I speak patois. I dreamed of marrying a man like that. But then I met someone who loves me to no end. I did my big chop and he was telling me how beautiful my kinky hair was, showing me the curl here and there and guess what, he’s not in group B. Damn he even helps me mix my homemade concoctions for my hair. And never fails to bring me an avocado when we run out without my asking just because he knows I use it in my hair. I’m not married yet so who knows who I’ll end up with but for now, I’m happy. I think we have to abandon whatever has made us think we can only find love – we should, or will only find love in group A and look around us…all 360 degrees. Peace out.

  24. Jackie 7 April 2010 at 2:08 pm Permalink

    @BGLH – yeah the men are very – let’s say interesting LOL and some of the women are very disrespectful. Maybe you should do a thread on that – Why do women disrespect other women (and themselves) by flirting or approaching a man that is clearly attached?

    Take care!

  25. Cardenie 7 April 2010 at 2:43 pm Permalink

    I agree with this post. I guess for me, I just don’t understand how someone can have the gall to have an opinion about who someone else chooses to date, if the relationship is not abusive or unhealthy in anyway. If the people seem happy, then mind your own business. I think Jill is projecting her own insecurities onto other people, and trying to act like it’s all about history.

    Now I am willing to see how those insecurities partially come from the issues she mentioned in her essay…but not all of them. And as an adult, we are responsible for addressing our own baggage at some point and not to stay in one place when it comes to our emotional health and healing.

  26. Yaya-06 7 April 2010 at 3:06 pm Permalink

    I’m kind of confused of these comments. I’m a white woman and my husband is black. We have a daughter. We don’t live in USA, so maybe that is why it’s kind a hard for me to understand this whole issue. Or maybe because I happen to be the “bad one” over here. The reason why I stop by and read this blog almost every day is my daughter, I want to know more about hair stuff and maybe the culture.
    There are plenty of things that I want our daughter to learn about herself and I want her to grow old and respect herself and her parents. When she is old enough to understand these kind of issues I really hope that she is strong enough to understand that her mom and dad fell in love for right reasons and not because her father hated black women like so many of you claim.
    I love my husband and I see nothing bad in it if my daughter would choose a black man for herself.
    I may sound a bit naive here but my heart melts for BW/WM couples. There are a lot of sterotypes against people like me and my husband in our country, but this topic really saddens me more.
    (sorry my english, it’s not my native language)

  27. Djohnson 7 April 2010 at 3:54 pm Permalink

    When I first went natural a friend of my mom was very against it. She said that us married women let ourselves go when we get married. She said that I wouldn’t dare go natural if I was single… It really bothered me when she said that. But in my defense, I grew up w/ a salon in our house. I didn’t even think that not getting a relaxer was an option. It wasn’t until my mom accidently found rusticbeauty on youtube that I realized that natural hair was an option. I knew then I had to try it. I had tried everything else: blonde,red,black hair. Jherri curls, perms, weaves, micros, etc. Why not natural? What do you all think? Do we as naturals only try it cause we already have a man?

  28. Sandy 7 April 2010 at 5:06 pm Permalink

    @ Djohnson

    Hell no!
    I’m single AND natural!

    Single because:

    - I’m picky and don’t want to settle for someone who isn’t as awesome as I am.

    - I really, really want to get this big promotion @ my job, and relationships are a lot of work!

    - I can do bad all by myself.

    Natural because:

    - I don’t want to apply chemicals to my scalp anymore, thank you very much!

    - Big hair suits my face.

    - Natural hair is gorgeous, versatile, & finger-twisting good!

    Going natural while married is NOT like pulling the old bait and switch on your mate !
    Going natural while single does NOT mean you’ve made yourself less marketable !

    Do I REALLY even have to say these things?!
    REALLY?!
    This is crazy, y’all.
    Your mom’s friend is old school, old fashioned, older generation, etc. — she’s just not up on the latest anything, possibly.
    That’s all it is.
    This is not a singles naturals VS married naturals debate.
    It’s an old people VS young folks debate.

    In my opinion, especially in this particular context, the young folks WIN!!!

  29. b. 7 April 2010 at 5:27 pm Permalink

    Yaya-06,

    I agree that this is a sad topic, but it’s one that is reality for many women in the US. From reading the comments, some of us acknowledge that there are SOME Black men who hold clear disdain for Black women JUST BECAUSE they are Black. (The “wack” ones as one commenter put it. The opposite also happens sometimes.) However, (and ya’ll correct me if I’m wrong) many of us do acknowledge that there are plenty of couples (and you seem to be part of one) who are in love and chose each other for the RIGHT reasons.

    Honestly, it would bother me if I saw a couple where one of the persons openly declared they chose their mate for something equally as superficial — say, just because the woman or man was tall or skinny — without regard to who the person is as a whole. (I hope I’m making sense here.)

    Just to throw another wrench in the matter: How many of ya’ll have an emotional reaction (fleeting or full-throttle) when you hear someone say they will ONLY date someone of the same race as themselves? This also bothers me personally because it is equally limiting and still serves to discount other possibilities at love. I am a woman happily married to a Black man, but I didn’t limit my attractions while single.

  30. Barnice 7 April 2010 at 5:33 pm Permalink

    I feel no wince because I am not sat on a lonely rock waiting for a black man or any other man to come along and say I’m worthy or wanted. I’ve seen black women who have not found a black male they could stick with throughout their lives and have ended at 40 years old, looking at other options. Why wait until you are older to enjoy relationships and learn what it is you do and do not want?

    People should date who they want because they love/like that person and enjoy being with them. However you should not close the door to opportunities for dating outside your race based on skin colour alone. It’s 2010, we live in a global community, we have more opportunity than ever to become culturally aware and learn about other people and cultures yet so many are hung up on race and the superficial end of racial issues.

    If you only want to date a black male then that’s fine but some of us are dating those we have things in common with, whose company we enjoy. That is not a black male just by default. There is more to a human than race.

  31. Djohnson 7 April 2010 at 5:34 pm Permalink

    @ Sandy
    I agree w/ you a 100% I hope you have huge success w/ your promotion. Keep wearing your natural hair!!! The funny thing is that the same ppl who were against it are now going natural too! My mom’s friend is still not fond of it but I just keep reppin for us natural ladies. I feel that whether I have my hair straight or curly I can look fly! Plus I have more good hair days w/ natural hair than I did w/ a relaxer. I haven’t even straightened my hair since October. I don’t miss it @ all…

  32. b. 7 April 2010 at 5:46 pm Permalink

    Just to be clear:

    As I state my opinions on this topic, I cannot for the life of me see myself personally dictating to someone else who and why they should and should not be with someone. I’m stating my thoughts on this forum to in turn find out what others think. While I personally think the point of Jill’s piece was to give voice to emotions some of us feel, and I can personally identify with what she’s saying, my overall opinion is this: love between two people is more important than any color. Like I said before, I have the thoughts Jill mentions sometimes, but that’s not where my cognitive functions end. My overall thoughts when I see couples in general and IR couples specifically are *how* they got together and how they are doing as a couple…not any potential ulterior motive behind their union.

  33. MissyD 7 April 2010 at 6:43 pm Permalink

    I know exactly where Jill Scott is coming from. She just about took the words out of my mouth. I don’t think there will ever be a time where I will see a man of African descent who is well off, intelligent, and has so much going for him that is married to a Caucasin woman and not wince.

    Todays society is so far gone that they act like if you aren’t in a interacial relationship or open to one then you are in the WRONG. Excuse me if I want a Brotha on my arm. I don’t have experiment because I know that what my people produce is excellence and nothing else can compare. This old slave mantality is still in too many of us. Honestly its alarming to me just how many people are choosing to go outside of their race for any reason besides love. Love should be the only thing that draws you to someone. Not their money, not their status, not because making a baby with them can produce a more Euorcentric ideal beauty.

    Like I said I don’t know what the world has come to but I’m not getting down with that b.s. and I thank Jill Scott for speaking her mind.

  34. Edyne 7 April 2010 at 7:25 pm Permalink

    I understand the “wince” that Jill Scott refers to. After all unlike many other races, there are just a lot less “eligibles” in our dating pool. This makes it tough if you have in your mind a future with someone who looks like you. . I think that is natural across all races. And our limited pool of eligibles is not me complaining- those are just the numbers. It doesn’t mean that its the only way you should date ( I have been in an IR) but I think that its natural for that to be the initial picture. On the other hand, I have reached the point that when I see an IR couple- specifically a blk man and a white woman- I think what tends to run through my mind is whether or not he is with her because she is a good mate or simply because she’s a trophy, more malleable, etc. But this is not a train of thought that I let consume my time for more than a few minutes. In some ways, being natural has lead me to be more self centered- I’m simply not worried if the brotha next to me is exhibiting some self hatred. Whats that gotta do with me? Its called SELF hatred for a reason. I digress.

    I think the inter-racial dating question has to do with our self esteem as blk women. No one else can validate that for us. That may be a tough pill to swallow but the fact of the matter is that slavery and civil rights were baby steps- we have a long way to go and we have to pull ourselves up from our bootstraps. So far we are heading in the right direction. We are more educated and successful then ever. To me that means that we have more to offer than ever. I think going natural is another step in the right direction. The media is not going to reflect our beauty as the standard anytime soon- if ever. That validation is something we have to take and the natural journey facilities that.

    How does this relate to dating and marriage? Men are attracted to smart, confident, successful women. My seventh grade teacher always said that no real man wants an idiot raising his son. We as blk women need to shine because we excel in these categories but we have our work cutout. As naturally strong and resilient women we need to learn when to roar like lions and when to be a flower. We work twice as hard for everything we get- when you find a man you don’t have to carry that burden alone anymore. Open your options- you may find out that you turn the heads of many that are VERY qualified to be in your pool of eligibles.

  35. Nicole 7 April 2010 at 7:53 pm Permalink

    “But while I do understand her feelings I think that mentality for me is left in the 90s with movies like Waiting to Exhale. I don’t know if it’s so much because I’m natural or maybe that I’m from a younger generation but I just don’t want to own that pain anymore.”

    I’ll drink to that Nikki! I feel you and I echo BGLH, you hit the nail on the head.

  36. Jc 7 April 2010 at 8:29 pm Permalink

    I (used to) love Jill Scott but her article is pretty silly and cliche to me. Seriously this is the 21st century and of course the black man had to be a wealthy athlete? Could have tried a doctor or a lawyer, it would have been less insulting to the intelligence.

    I think it is indeed a sad world that we live in when people feel that it is ok to be racist. Yes I said it, racist. Justify it all you like but at the end of the day, if you are troubled by someone else`s actions or choices because of skin colour, in my book that is just plain ole racist.

    Earth to Jill, this is 2010. The first biracial president of USA is currently governing your country. A black woman – Oprah Winfrey is one of the richest people on earth. South Africa is hosting the world cup (i.e the most watched tournament in the world).

    All these events happened because people can look beyond race. All these events happened because people of colour can and do strive to achieve.

    Slavery remains one of the greatest evils that ever happened. Our ancestors died because of racism, do not ever use their passing to justify racism.

  37. Afrika 7 April 2010 at 9:09 pm Permalink

    JC
    I think it is unfair to easily dismiss Jill and call her backwards. Let’s not pretend like self-hate is not something which is prevalent in black communities worldwide.

  38. K 7 April 2010 at 9:14 pm Permalink

    First, BGLH, I must agree with dajewel – I felt that there was a disconnect between the issue being addressed by Jill Scott and your commentary. It seemed to be two [some-what related yet] different issues. I think Jill was addressing the general insecurity and threat some black women feel when they see a black man with a woman of another race; whereas you seemed to be speaking on the love and acceptance natural women are able to inspire and receive from their partners (regardless of that partner’s race). It was only your very last comment – “All I’m saying is that we can spend our energy trying to plead with and convince those who don’t love us. Or we can spend our energy and time investing in those who do.” – which connected, at least for me, the two issues.

    I commend Jill Scott for her openness and honesty. Its not an easy topic for most of us to speak on. For a public figure there’s always the risk that speaking out this way may cause you to alienate or lose some of your fans. However, the response and commentary these types of topics generate only proves that we are far from being a “post-racial” society and that issues of race and racism are very provocative.

    I admit to feeling that “wince” (sometimes an ache) when I see black men with women of other races. I think the core of the problem is that in America black men and women appear to be in continually adversarial positions against each other. We are like enemies. Just go to YouTube and enter the words “black women” or “black men” and see the venomous, hateful videos made by black people against each other. I don’t know of any other racial group where the men and women continuously and publicly disrespect, stereotype and degrade each other. We live in a society where we are frequently confronted with and are battling against racism – in the work place, when we walk into stores, hell, just walking down the street. And we get it from every group, including our own. Many of us hate ourselves and we hate each other. We’re bombarded with images that put us at the bottom of society and make us the least desirable of all people. We’ve subconsciously bought into the belief that anyone but us is better than us. So when we see members of our race mating with others it hurts because it simultaneously touches all of these issues and many more.

  39. Sandy 7 April 2010 at 9:59 pm Permalink

    @ Jc

    So Jill’s wanting to see black (intra-racial) relationships thrive and not go the way of the dodo bird is racist now?

    And what is up with this cop out of a knee-jerk response these days that “it’s 2010?!”
    (To the tune of “What’s love got to do with it”):
    What’s 2010 got to do . . . got to do with it?!
    How lucky I’d be if I could just play my “it’s 2010″ card every time I encountered a racist person or experienced racism!

    “Hey, Mr. Racist Man! Don’t hate on me! It’s 2010, remember?”

    So 2010 is the panacea for all of our nation’s ills?
    Really?
    That simple?
    That easy?
    Hallelujah, we’s free o’ racism! Iss a miracle, lawd!
    Thank you, 2010 for your miracle cure!

    SMH

  40. KimDione 7 April 2010 at 10:56 pm Permalink

    I think that we are blind if we dont see the preference that many black men have for non black women.How many of us know several black women under 30 who “have it together”and are still single???Lets be honest!I dont believe Jill is against interracial love in general;just the fact that so many black men knock over us to run after white women.I also dont see what this has to do with natural hair vs. relaxed or so.

  41. BlaqInfinite 7 April 2010 at 11:16 pm Permalink

    @JC
    Man…one thing I hate is when black people try to pretend racism doesn’t exist anymore. It’s foolish to blatantly deny something that puts you at a disadvantage: something you must face each day in indirectly or directly.

  42. CupOf*T 8 April 2010 at 12:23 am Permalink

    Some of you R funny, lol.Here’s my 2 sense :-) I think Jill was, as another person wrote expressing the conflicting feeling that she has when she sees BM/WW IR.I don’t think she is being racist I think she is being honest. I have felt and thought about everything she stated in that article at one time or another but my rationale mind knows that 2 people of diff races can fall in love. As a black woman I have conflicting issues over a lot of things in this country not just race (should I buy regular or organic fruit only?) The bottom line is I applaud Jill for being honest about her feelinggs and opening the door for discussion. I myself am engaged 2 a biracial man and we hav had heated debates about race but at the end of the day we love each other. And lastly I absolutley agree with Nikki – ladies please stop worry about the men who Don’t Date Black Womwen and focus on the ones who do no matter what race they R. Now I’m jus sayin,lol-Holla!

  43. Jc 8 April 2010 at 5:36 am Permalink

    Sandy- Do not be so ridiculous of course racism still exists. I am saying that right now the world you live in – because of the death of hundreds of thousands of Africans – is pretty damn good. They died and fought for your freedom.

    I find it quite insulting that we do not realize just how privileged we are. If it were not for those slaves fighting so long ago to be free, you and I would not be sitting here having this discussion. Try and picture what your life would have been like if this was 1810…seriously picture the scene – snatched from your home, chained like cattle, overworked, beaten, raped. How can you not possibly see that right now your life is pretty damn good??

    Life is not perfect and it never will be. The world is not perfect and it will never be. The point is if you ever had a point in time where you could say that you truly have a chance to define your own success……..it is now, it was yesterday, it was last year and the year before that.

    Your path will most likely be fraught with difficulties that people of other races may not experience. This is part of your journey and your success depends on whether you let it hold you back or keep your eyes set on your target.

  44. Nicole 8 April 2010 at 7:46 am Permalink

    I appreciate Jill’s honestly. Those were her two cents and how she felt about the situation. It’s neither here nor there. Before I got married I dated all races. I did not discriminate or exclusively set my sites on THE BLACK MAN! I married one though, but not because he was black. My cousin married a man who is Caucasian and Asian, so my little cousin is mixed with three races plus those that we may not know about. So What! They love each other and treat each other so tenderly. They were meant for each other. My God son is mixed with black and Philippino and my God daughter is mixed with Black and Indian. So What! It’s time to move on. I believe future generations will be predominately interracial!

  45. wannabewriter 8 April 2010 at 10:07 am Permalink

    I feel that the writer of this article has totally misunderstood where Jill is coming from!….what she said has nothing to do with bitterness at all…are you kidding me? It’s like a mother who raised her son into a good, respectful and independent man…she still feels a wince when he decides to leave the nest to pursue his individual dream. Moving forward as “naturals” or whatever you want to call it does not mean turning a blind eye to majority of other peoples stories!…yes you and i might be engaged it does not mean this is the story of many other naturals. What Jill said in her article is true! it does not mean she does not support interracial marriages…the society has always placed white women on a pedestal while the black woman has been the mule of the world something happens when you see a good black man married to a lady of another race it is not because you are not happy for him but you feel the lose as if it affected you personally…please in our bid to potray great “natural stories” lets not forget to focus on the not so great stories

  46. Jackie 8 April 2010 at 12:26 pm Permalink

    @ K – wow, everything you said was on point! It’s good to know that there are other people out there that recognize the deeper issues at play. I also think that one of the reasons we (black people) haven’t reached our true ability is because we are so quick to dismiss all the deep rooted, still-affecting-us-today issues. We have to analyze the problem and figure out how we got to where we are before we can solve it.

  47. Jay 8 April 2010 at 2:07 pm Permalink

    While I understand Jill’s wince, I also understand what you meant when you talked about self acceptance. When I was younger it did upset me when I saw black men with white women or mexican women.

    Where I grew up (Tucson, Az) nobody wanted the little black girl, not even the few little black boys. So yes I remember the wince.

    Now, that Im older and I know myself and am perfectly content being exactly who God formed me to be, I could care less who’s interested. Jay-z put it best- No matter where you go you are what you are playa, and you can try to change but that’s just the top layer. Man you was who you was before you got here, only God can judge me so I’m gone. You either love me or leave me alone.

    I love myself too much to care about what someone else finds attractive, and I’ve found that the more comfortable I am in my skin the more men I have approach me. That being said. My fiance has supported me consistently through my natural hair journey. He met me when I was natural the first time. Supported my BC decision to cut it all off the second time and actually wanted me to rock an afro to our May 1st wedding (although I let him know that’s not happening =)) My point is simply that when you love who you are, and you are that way at all times, the people that come into your life will love you too. And if they dont they can go kick rocks.

  48. Afrika 8 April 2010 at 6:21 pm Permalink

    ” If it were not for those slaves fighting so long ago to be free, you and I would not be sitting here having this discussion. Try and picture what your life would have been like if this was 1810…seriously picture the scene – snatched from your home, chained like cattle, overworked, beaten, raped. How can you not possibly see that right now your life is pretty damn good??” – JC

    JC, I must say that I find your tone to be a tad bit condescending. I think we are grown ups here and we all understand the pain and suffering our ancestors had to endure for our freedom. I have re-read all the posts here and I can’t find any single one which belittles the freedom we enjoy now thanks to the endurance of our ancestors…not one.

    I get where you are coming from, but you would lying to yourself if you said that self-hate does not play a role in some inter-racial relationships( I didn’t say “all”, I said “some”) A lot of black men and women date outside of their race because of self-hate. I have had my friends tell me that they want to get married to white partners in order to have children with “good hair”. I grew up West Africa where “metis” ( mixed children) are held to a higher standard. A lot of my friends constantly dream of traveling out of the country and finding white partners. While I agree that Jill could have phrased her words differently, I completely understand where she is coming from. She is addressing a legitimate and important issue of self-hate in the black community and for that I say KUDOS.

  49. Vacra 8 April 2010 at 8:18 pm Permalink

    I have felt the wince before but then I felt like a hypocrite because I have dated many white men. On the other hand I started dating white men because of a lack of quality black men around me…yadda yadda I am happy and in love with my man bi-racial man now so I dont have to trip so hard on being hypocritical or not lol.

  50. Jc 9 April 2010 at 4:44 am Permalink

    Afrika my commentary vis a vis slavery was directed at Jill’s writing not in response to any other comment. It was not intended to be condescending but instead to be a serious wake up call and plea for reason. We are living in a golden age and we need to grasp it.

    It is fair enough to talk about self hate but it can be done responsibly as you have done Afrika without being racist, without stereotyping every relationship. If you walk around looking externally at other people’s relationships, people who you know nothing about? Something is wrong with you. If you add colour to the mix – something is seriously wrong!


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